MARK DREYFUS
SHADOW ATTORNEY-GENERAL
SHADOW MINISTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM
MEMBER FOR ISAACS
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC TV AFTERNOON BRIEFING
FRIDAY, 28 FEBRUARY, 2020
SUBJECTS: Media freedom; Jacinda Ardern comments.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: The Senate has been investigating press freedom since Federal Police raided journalists last year. The Department of Home Affairs has said, in a submission, that in circumstances where police still want to conduct a search, they should be able to apply to an independent issuing authority to make the decision. Do you think that would be a possible good solution to this?
MARK DREYFUS, SHADOW ATTORNEY-GENERAL: It is very disappointing that some six months after this inquiry started in July, and after waiting almost three months for the Department of Home Affairs and the Australian Federal Police to put forward a further submission, yesterday we got an incredibly thin, about three and a half pages worth of submission, on behalf of the government agencies, which is effectively putting forward the most modest proposal. Its one which would still potentially see journalists going to jail for just doing their jobs. It certainly leaves open the possibility of police raids continuing.
It simply says in some circumstances there might be some use in a kind of notice process. Saying there is going to be independent issuing authorities is not a change from now, where you need to go to an independent authority to get a search warrant.
KARVELAS: The submission does reject the proposal from the Right To Know group for a broad immunity for journalists and makes arguments against that. It says that it still needs to maintain the current rights that it has. What do you see as the flaws in the arguments that they put forward?
DREYFUS: The flaws are that there is, and for a long time by convention has been, a special place occupied in our democracy by journalists and media organisations. And if that convention has now been thrown out by this government - and it appeared from the police raids conducted last year on the home of a journalist, and on the headquarters of the ABC that they have thrown out those long established conventions - then the law will need to be changed to make sure that that special place occupied by journalists and media organisations is maintained.
I am not asking here for any avoidance of, or protection from criminal acts by journalists. Obviously if a journalist has committed a crime like murder or theft or anything like that, they are subject to the law just as every other Australian. But where journalists are doing their ordinary jobs of reporting in the public interest -because that is what this argument is about, public interest journalism - then there ought to be a recognition of that special role, and at the moment, this government is not prepared to offer more than lip service to that special role.
Their position now - that we have been waiting three months as the intelligence committee delayed reporting on this for three months - the position of the government is they are not going to give more than, as I say, lip service to protecting journalists. They are saying police raids, yes, that can still happen. Charging a journalist, yes that can still happen. They are not prepared to countenance what I say are very practical proposals that have been put forward by the Right To Know Coalition.
KARVELAS: What's your analysis of the Home Affairs submission? Because it seems to me that they say that yes, you're right, it's still on the table, but this would be something in terms of raiding journalists that they would not use very often. They just want to maintain the right. Is that your take of it as well?
DREYFUS: They are not prepared to put in place any actual protections that will provide the kind of legislated protection that is now apparently necessary.
I think that people around the world and people in Australia were shocked to see the Australian Federal Police in numbers raiding the headquarters of the ABC, and the Australian Federal Police in numbers, raiding the home of a journalist, chasing down leaks of stories that had been reported on in the public interest.
By all means, and I have said this before, let the government and the police go after public servants who have broken the law by revealing this kind of secret government information. But the press, the journalists, are just doing their job of reporting in the public interest, and they should not be the target. They havent been the target for decades. You have to go back decades before you can find a case of a journalist or a media organisation being targeted in this way.
This government seems to be suggesting, Mr Morrison suggested, it is just business as usual. Well if that's right, then all Australians need to be very concerned and we need to keep pressing for proper protections because clearly, this government does not understand the important role that is played by journalists and media organisations in public interest reporting.
KARVELAS: Just briefly what do you make of the ABCs decision to abandon court action in relation to its two journalists?
DREYFUS: The ABC made a challenge in the Federal Court of Australia to the lawfulness of a warrant that was executed by the Australian Federal Police in June, shortly after the election. They lost, the court has said that this was a lawfully issued warrant. Its a matter for the ABC whether they go on to appeal and they decided not to.
So I don't comment further. I have looked at the judgement, and the ABC, as would any Australian organisation, was entirely in its rights to challenge the warrant but it is open to the ABC to simply leave it there.
KARVELAS: On another issue New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Arden says the Australian policy of deporting criminals to New Zealand when they have scant connection with New Zealand is corrosive to the relationship. She's given pretty strong statements in the joint press conference. What are your reflections on the anger that she's represented or shes shared there in relation to Australia's actions?
DREYFUS: We can all say that Australia has no closer friend in the world than New Zealand. Our cousins across the ditch as they are sometimes referred to. That said, Labor supports the appropriate use of the powers that are there in the Migration Act to cancel visas, the appropriate powers that are there in the Migration Act to deport criminals.
I am hoping that something can be resolved here in discussions have occurred today, and discussions that no doubt will be ongoing, between Jacinda Ardern and our Prime Minister.
KARVELAS: Thanks for joining us
DREYFUS: Thanks Patricia.
ENDS
