THE HON MARK DREYFUS QC MP
SHADOW ATTORNEY-GENERAL
SHADOW MINISTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM
MEMBER FOR ISAACS
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RN DRIVE
MONDAY, 7 OCTOBER 2019
SUBJECTS: Turkish invasion of Syria, extinction rebellion protests, Peter Dutton's comments on protesters, Iranian prison swap, religious discrimination, press freedom, retirement rumours.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Mark Dreyfus is the Shadow Attorney-General. Welcome.
MARK DREYFUS, SHADOW ATTORNEY GENERAL: Thanks Patricia. Thanks for having me.
KARVELAS: Were going to get to that issue in a moment. But first: this issue that's broken this afternoon developing new the US has given the green light to Turkish plans to invade Northern Syria. What's your reaction to that?
DREYFUS: I've seen the report an hour or so ago and I'd have to say that I'm not aware of the detail. But, I do think it's very important that the Government now, straightaway, outline what the implications are for any Australian forces in the Middle East, what the implications the Government can see for the Syrian conflict, for Kurdish communities and it's a surprise announcement, so our Government needs to be getting on the phone pretty quick, I would have thought, to find out what's intended, what the Turkish Government's intentions are, what the US Governments intentions are.
KARVELAS: There's a safe zone controlled by US-backed Kurdish fighters who have been holding captured foreign Islamic State fighters including Australians. Are you worried about those people now?
DREYFUS: There's some fifty or so former Islamic State fighters who are Australian citizens who are being held and Australian citizens, women and children, some of whom may have been fighters, some of whom who are saying that they were definitely not they're also in these camps in Northern Syria. Obviously, there's concerns about Australian citizens who are at risk in anywhere in the world. That's something I'd be hoping the Government makes clear as soon as it can, what the implications are of this announcement for them.
KARVELAS: It's a difficult issue. What should they do?
DREYFUS: Well, some of the Australian children have already been brought home. And the call that's been made by the United States, and by the Kurdish fighters who are maintaining these camps, is that all countries should be taking their nationals home. I've yet to see an explanation from our Government as to why we shouldn't be doing just that.
KARVELAS: Okay. Just on these big protests were seeing and were going to see more of them because there's a spring rebellion, is what they're calling it, the Extinction Rebellion protesters are saying that their actions in Melbourne , Sydney and Brisbane were peaceful but some will also be highly arrestable. Do you have concerns around this?
DREYFUS: I've actually got more concerns about the extraordinary reaction that we've seen from the Minister for Home Affairs, Peter Dutton. In the last week we've heard him call for mandatory prison sentences for people who engage in protest activity. He has called for protesters to have their welfare payments cancelled. He has called for mob justice what he said was that protestors should be photographed and publicly shamed by their fellow citizens. Now, that's a kind of thing that you'd expect to hear from a minister in a police state.
Whatever you think, whatever anyone thinks about the particular group of protesters that he was referring to, the idea of this Liberal Government, which has exhibited a total and complete failure on climate policy, suggesting that Australian judges should jail people who haven't even yet been charged, who haven't even engage in any particular activity I think that's authoritarian extremism. I think we need to recognise that part of our democracy is the right to engage in protests
KARVELAS: Do you think this kind of disruption blocking intersections, holding sit-ins helps their cause or does it alienate the wider public?
DREYFUS: I think that protests can take a whole range of forms. I'm not going to condone ever illegal activity. But you need to think about the cause that this protest is directed to, and I think what the Government wants everyone to do is to be distracted by the protesters themselves. Anything than have Australians think about what these protesters are protesting about, which is the complete and total failure on the part of the Liberal Government to put in place coherent, real climate action policies. That's what's not happening, that's what Mr Morrison doesn't want Australians to be debating and, of course, that's what the protester do want people to be debating.
Its an old trick of authoritarian governments to attack those who attack their policies, or in this case a lack of policies, and Id hope that Australians are not diverted into an attack or a personalisation by looking at these protesters. Rather, we need to be thinking about why it is that thousands and thousands of young Australians came out for the climate strikes, why these protesters might be wanting to protest tomorrow about extinctions, about the lack of climate policy and not be diverted, Patricia, by an attack on the protesters.
KARVELAS: On another issue, an Iranian cancer researcher has arrived back in Australia, in Tehran rather, after Australia decided not to extradite him to the US on charges of breaching sanctions a decade ago. This appears to be in exchange for two Australians travel bloggers who were arrested in Iran, appears as I say because the Government won't confirm this. Are you satisfied with how this was handled?
DREYFUS: Well, I don't know. Because the Attorney-General hasn't said exactly whats occurred here. It's significant, I think, always for any Australian Attorney-General or Government to refuse an extradition request from the United States on, as I understand the reporting, some kind of espionage charges but my knowledge is the same as yours, Patricia. I've read whats been reported in the media. We're not going to be able to really discuss this unless the Government uses to make it a bit clearer.
KARVELAS: There are a few other issues on the Attorney-Generals, you know, things to do list, and you're his Shadow. One of those religious freedoms or religious discrimination more accurately I should describe it as. And a process now to look at this draft legislation the Government has come up with. Where do you see this going? Is Labor likely to support this broad legislation the Government has provided?
DREYFUS: Well, we don't even know yet what legislation the Government is going to bring to the Parliament. What Christian Porter, the Attorney-General, did was to publish, some weeks back, an exposure draft of the Religious Discrimination Bill. He called for public comment by the 2nd of October. Many, many people hundreds, as I understand it, possibly thousands have made submissions on that exposure draft. I don't expect that when, and it's not clear when this will be, when the Government will bring back a bill in a final form to the Parliament, I don't expect it will be the same as these exposure draft documents that have been released.
KARVELAS: Do you think it will be settled by the end of the year?
DREYFUS: Mr Porter has said that he wants to bring legislation to the Parliament before the end of the year. I've got to say, I think that's looking unlikely given the storm of criticism that the exposure draft bill has caused and given the fact that the Government, for example, hasn't resolved what its going to do about the Australian Law Reform Commission inquiry which is into related matters, namely the exemptions for religious schools.
KARVELAS: The Attorney-General Christian Porter has told security agencies that they'll need his sign-off before charging journalist with some national security offences. The Law Council says this puts more pressure on the media to keep the Government onside. Do you agree?
DREYFUS: I think it's absolutely obvious why the Law Council reached that conclusion. We've got a Government that doesn't really care about press freedom in this country. We've got Mr Morrison saying that hes untroubled by police raids on a journalist's home that was Annika Smethurst back in June. The very next day, of course, we had a raid on the headquarters of this news organisation, the ABC, and that's the attitude of this Government. I can understand why the Law Council doesn't take particular comfort from a direction given by the Attorney-General to prosecuting authorities that hell need to sign-off on any further prosecution.
I've called on Mr Porter, the Attorney-General, to rule out right now prosecuting Annika Smethurst, Sam Clark and Dan Oakes, the latter two are the two ABC journalists. And he could do that straight away and that would be the end of this matter. We've got a current inquiry looking at whether or not legislation needs to change. I think it's pretty clear given the way that this Government is choosing to conduct itself not concerned about intimidation of journalists that we do need change to legislation. Because we've got here a state of affairs with raids on a journalists home and raids on the ABC headquarters that has caused commentary around the world. They thought Australia was better than that. They thought this was a country in which its a part of our thriving democracy that we have a free press that is able to comment and when they comment in a way that embarrasses the Government, which is what happened with these two stories, that's not going to lead to police raids. So I'm with the Law Council for not feeling particularly comforted for this Attorney-Generals direction.
KARVELAS: Josh Frydenberg, the Treasurer, has been out today saying people should vote with their feet and leave their banks if they're not passing on full interest rate cuts now. I know you're not in economics Shadow Minister but do you think that's good advice?
DREYFUS: I think it's all too easy for this do-nothing Government to blame others. That's what they like to do best. Mr Morrison likes to blame others, Mr Frydenberg likes to blame others. Here, Mr Frydenberg and Mr Morrison have been hopping into the banks. I think its clear from statements by the Reserve Bank Governor and by former Governors of the Reserve Bank that we've just about reached the outer limit of what can be done in the setting of monetary policy in the setting of interest rates. Whats needed is actual stimulus, actual infrastructure spending
KARVELAS: But don't the banks have to provide the opportunity for people to have the most amount of money in their potential pockets to spend?
DREYFUS: There are many other ways that we can prompt economic activity, which are directly within the control of the Federal Government of Australia. Not leaving it to the Reserve Bank to go ever lower. We don't have much more room to cut we're almost at zero interest and there's just not much more room for the banks to pass on any cuts. I think the Government needs to look at its own policies and its own settings, and take some advice that the Reserve Bank Governor has been desperately trying to give for months now, which is: bring forward infrastructure spending, do some, make some decisions, which will actually see more money coming into the economy.
KARVELAS: Before I let you go: it has been reported in the media today that you're planning to quit politics, potentially within weeks, to become a Judge in Victoria. For the benefit of our listeners is that right?
DREYFUS: I'm complimented that anyone would think that I was able to be a judge. But it is a baseless rumour, Patricia, just to be clear. It is a baseless rumour that was spread first in August, it has been spread again this morning, and there is no truth in it. I am looking forward to fighting the next election and winning the next election to see a Labor Government in place.
KARVELAS: OK so you will run in the seat of Isaacs at the next election?
DREYFUS: Yes, yes.
KARVELAS: Without a shadow of a doubt, 100 per cent, you're locked and loaded, you're running at the next election?
DREYFUS: Yes. I am the member for Isaacs. I just had the honour of being re-elected by the people of Isaacs and I propose to serve my term and run at the next election.
KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us.
DREYFUS: Thanks Patricia.
ENDS
