MARK DREYFUS
SHADOW ATTORNEY-GENERAL
SHADOW MINISTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM
MEMBER FOR ISAACS
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC MELBOURNE DRIVE
TUESDAY, 28 JANUARY, 2020
SUBJECT: Sports Rorts; Climate change.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN: I don't often recommend that you watch television, because radio is a wonderful medium. However, check it out tonight at seven o'clock. Ill tell you why this is interesting. Andrew Probyn has got onto a great story. So he covers politics mainly for the Seven o'clock news bulletin, but of course, across the ABC.
They've got the colour-coded list from the former Sports Minister's office. So they went through all of those sports grants and they colour-coded the political party of the electorate those sports grants were going to. It's just a visual confirmation of what the Auditor-General already said, that they didn't award the money - $100 million - they didn't award the money on the basis of need, they awarded the money on the basis of the Government's political needs.
Andrew Probyn from the ABC joined us earlier, this is how he explained the news break he got today.
PROBYN: This remarkable document that we've obtained shows the breakdown of about a thousand applications, how they're ranked according and against the Sport Australia criteria, but importantly, it shows how the political process interfered and picked which ones would get the money.
EPSTEIN: It's a little bit damning. At 12 minutes past six, we're joined by one of Labor's frontbenchers. The reason being, these are the people we've contacted and invited onto the program today. There's the Nationals MP for one of the Victorian electorates, Damian Drum, who is also the National Party Whip. There's Karen Webster, who's the new National MP for the seat of Mallee, which is the biggest electorate in Victoria. David Littleproud, we asked for him as well, one of the crucial Nationals and ministers involved in the drought response. We asked for Dan Tehan, the Education Minister. We asked for Barnaby Joyce, the former Nationals Leader and Nationals MP and we asked for the Foreign Minister Marise Payne as well. Look, none of them were able, I presuming either able or willing to join us.
Mark Dreyfus is able to join us. He is the Shadow Attorney-General. He's the Labor MP for the seat of Isaacs and he's giving a lecture on trust tonight that he needs to get to very soon. Mark Dreyfus thanks for joining us.
MARK DREYFUS, SHADOW ATTORNEY-GENERAL: It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me. And I hope you had a very good break.
EPSTEIN: I did. Thank you. Let's start here. Do you trust the medical experts, people like the Chief Medical Officer of the Commonwealth of Australia?
DREYFUS: I do because I've worked closely with successive Chief Medical Officers and I'm hoping there's not a lack of trust in the Chief Medical Officer. The present Chief Medical Officer, as previous Chief Medical Officers, is a very eminent Australian doctor.
But it is symptomatic of a general loss of faith in government, that people don't even trust the Chief Medical Officer or not enough people trust the Chief Medical Officer. We've got to do something about it. I think it starts with telling the truth. I think it starts with owning up to mistakes. And it's something that, because of the failure of leadership from Scott Morrison, he and his government seem unable to do.
EPSTEIN: Did Labor make mistakes in government under Rudd and Gillard?
DREYFUS: Of course, we made mistakes. All governments make mistakes, and I hope that we can
EPSTEIN: Can you name a mistake? What did they do wrong?
DREYFUS: I think that we probably didn't spend enough time can I just to go to the topic you had on before the news - talking to the Australian people about the need for action on climate, which is we didn't do enough. And I see this as a mistake to not fight back against the misinformation from the Abbott-lead Opposition. This is a pretty important lesson.
EPSTEIN: Was it a mistake to call it the biggest moral challenge, and then not put forward a solution? Was that the mistake? The labelling, or was it the policy?
DREYFUS: I don't think that Kevin Rudd, or those of us who were with him in government, regret for a moment calling it the greatest moral challenge of our time. It is a moral challenge. I think that the issue is with how we explained what was needed to the Australian people and Im very keen that mistake not be repeated. I'm going to be talking about the need for action on climate change and my Labor colleagues are going to do the same thing.
EPSTEIN: Could you agree with this Government on a new federal anti-corruption commission? They are essentially saying they haven't been able to bring it forward because they can't get agreement with you. Can you see a world in which you would agree on a Federal ICAC or IBAC?
DREYFUS:That's an absurd proposition and I think the Australian people are getting a bit sick of the Government blaming Labor, which is in Opposition, for them not doing something.
We have yet to see a bill to establish a National Integrity Commission from the Government despite repeated promises from them. First, their position was you don't need one. Next, their position was here's a very inadequate model that we will put in a discussion paper. Then they promised to bring a bill to the Parliament before the end of last year and that didn't happen. That's a real concern that's got nothing to do with reaching agreement with Labor.
EPSTEIN: It's important isn't it because if they reach agreement with you that is a broad acceptance of the basic structure we might have for an anti-corruption body? If they do it with the crossbench, it isn't as broad is it? So it would be good if they could reach agreement with you wouldn't it?
DREYFUS: Raff, Labor invited the Government to work with us two years ago on a National Integrity Commission. I've given speech after speech in which I explained what sort of National Integrity Commission we support, and at the end, it's one that's powerful, that's independent, that's broad-based. The Governments first position was, we don't need one. Its next position was to not agree with us on it being powerful and independent. So we're a long way apart, but we're both saying the same thing. The detail will be apparent when the Government brings a bill to the Parliament and the sooner they do that, the better.
EPSTEIN: Even if Bridget McKenzie resigned from the Ministry, you would pursue the Government on this for ages. What would the point of a resignation be?
DREYFUS: The point of her resigning is that it shows that there's still some semblance of ministerial responsibility. That when a minister presides over a rort that has occurred here on a grand scale, that she is held personally responsible.
But you are right, for two weeks now this has been in the news because the Government is intent on covering it up. It's announced that we need two new inquiries, and we can see how that's working. It's working to provide an excuse for Bridget McKenzie not to comment, an excuse for Mr Morrison not to comment. And no doubt those two inquiries - one by the Attorney-General and one by Mr Morrison's former Chief of Staff who's now the head of this department - it will be looking for ways to get Mr Morrison off the hook.
EPSTEIN: There's no evidence the Prime Minister's office was involved.
DREYFUS: On the contrary, there's been widespread reporting that senior advisors from Mr Morrison's office were directly involved in choosing the grant recipients.
EPSTEIN: There's been one story, hasn't there, that two people in the Prime Minister's office might have been involved?
DREYFUS: Well, let Mr. Morrison answer questions. He's at the Press Club tomorrow and I sincerely hope he is asked that question - which advisers from your office we're involved in choosing the recipients which we now see, from the excellent investigative reporting from Andrew Probyn, is grants being given to clubs that were not assessed by Sport Australia as being worth giving the grants to on merit?
EPSTEIN: That is something the Auditor-General said.
Mark Dreyfus, this is a political trivia question, who coined the phrase Sports Rorts?
DREYFUS: Tony Smith, the present Speaker.
EPSTEIN: Do you know that before you read it in the paper?
DREYFUS: I read that in Peter Costello's memoir.
EPSTEIN: Did you remember that from Peter Costello's memoir?
DREYFUS: I did, because it was such an evocative phrase. I wasn't in the Parliament then, but it did tremendous damage to a Labor Minister and I thought that's a pretty good phrase and here you see it being recycled by the other side of politics.
EPSTEIN: Thanks so much for your time.
DREYFUS: Thank you very much. Mark.
ENDS
