MARK DREYFUS QC MP
SHADOW ATTORNEY-GENERAL
SHADOW MINISTER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY
MEMBER FOR ISAACS
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
ABC NEWS BREAKFAST
FRIDAY, 14 DECEMBER 2018
SUBJECTS: Anti-corruption commission; religious freedom
PAUL KENNEDY, HOST: The Shadow Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus yesterday said the Government had been dragged kicking and screaming to the idea of a commission. He joins us in the studio now.
MARK DREYFUS, SHADOW ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Thanks for having me.
KENNEDY: Why are you slamming the Government? You have been urging the Government to announce an anti-corruption body?
DREYFUS: We are pleased that there now seems to be a consensus in Canberra that we need a National Integrity Commission but we're disappointed that the Government has produced a model which has got limited scope, limited powers and no transparency, very disappointingly. We think the commission has to have power to hold hearings in public.
KENNEDY: Let's go to that. They are proposing a model where the law enforcement aspect might have the powers to have public hearings but not so for the public sector.
DREYFUS: That's right. Particularly not so for, apparently, politicians. I think Australians want more, I think Australians don't want a secret tribunal. We've got the experience of more than 30 years of the state integrity commissions which has shown there is a great value in holding hearings in public. It is a way to educate the public about anti-corruption measures and as David Ipp, the former ICAC Commissioner has pointed out, it brings people forward, it brings out other witnesses.
KENNEDY: Under your model, you would like to see politicians and their staff grilled in public hearings?
DREYFUS: We want to see a concerted effort against corruption everywhere in public life in Australia. We think we need to rebuild confidence...
KENNEDY: Public hearings for politicians?
DREYFUS: If that's what the Commissioner decides is warranted then that should occur.
KENNEDY: The language, when you announced this earlier this year, Bill Shorten announced it earlier this year, you did mention the State and getting the best from the State-based models...
DREYFUS: Yes.
KENNEDY: That seems to be an acknowledgement that they're not perfect, to me. What is your model and what will it most resemble, looking at the State-based plan?
DREYFUS: It should most resemble the New South Wales ICAC which has got hearings in public, which is able to self-start its inquiries. I think other examples - I don’t want to single them out, but we've seen other State integrity commissions which have set the bar much too high and that is an error that the Morrison Government seems to be falling into, they want to set the bar very high. They want the commission only to be able to look at matters where there's, as they put it, a reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct. That's too high. They want it only to be in relation to criminal conduct. That's too high. They don't want it to be able to self-start, that's not enough power. As I said, there is a limit that they want to put on public hearings and I don't think that's appropriate.
KENNEDY: Isn't there merit in reporting directly to the Director of Public Prosecutions?
DREYFUS: All of them do that. All of the integrity commissions refer matters where they think criminal conduct has occurred to the State Director of Public Prosecutions, in our case it would be to the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions but it's really important that we get the settings right and it is disappointing that after a whole year of public debate, Bill Shorten announced this right at the start of the year in his National Press Club speech in January. We have had a year of discussion, debate, with really good ideas coming forward from retired judges, from the Australia Institute, from the cross bench and it's disappointing that the Government has not taken on board the various suggestions that have been made.
KENNEDY: To another matter and a proposed religious discrimination act that the Government talked about yesterday. Once again, you're much closer than people would imagine because you seem to be supportive of this?
DREYFUS: We will look at it. The Australian Labor Party is absolutely opposed to all forms of discrimination and if it's suggested that there needs to be at the federal level some protection in relation to religion, then we will look at that and let's see what the Government brings forward. What is disappointing to us is that the Government's taken so long to release the report, they have had it since May 18th. They waited until after Parliament had risen and now we get a rushed, unclear press conference from Scott Morrison and Christian Porter yesterday. What's particularly disappointing is that Mr Morrison failed to keep his promise to remove the discrimination against LGBTI kids in religious schools. That has been put off now.
KENNEDY: That became a political discussion, didn't it?
DREYFUS: No, it's a failure on the part of the Government. Mr Morrison made this promise...
KENNEDY: What is your sticking point there?
DREYFUS: It is apparent that Mr Morrison wants to bring now into this issue a whole lot of other matters which are not necessary. We think you can simply remove the exemption.
KENNEDY: What is the point, it has been lost in the political discussion for the viewers, what is the sticking point for Labor? You both agree that protections against discrimination of gay children in schools should exist?
DREYFUS: Unfortunately, Mr Morrison seems to want to add back in the very exemption he is removing. He wants to not have a full withdrawal of the exemption which is what he promised before the Wentworth by-election. Regrettably, he's kicked it completely down the road, we are to have an inquiry by the Australian Law Reform Commission and that is a shame.
KENNEDY: The Catholic Archbishop of Sydney came out yesterday and said "Lately a hard edge secularism wants to stamp out religion from public life". Have you seen any of that?
DREYFUS: No. I don't think any of the multiple inquiries in the last several years have suggested that there's any problem with people practicing their religion in our country. This is a country where religious freedom has been a hallmark of our society and it continues, even the Ruddock review did not identify any real threat to religious freedom.
KENNEDY: He also said that the recent State laws and the changes by States to want to force priests to report child abuse, even if it's revealed in the confessional is an example of the religious freedoms being impinged.
DREYFUS: I think I know where Australian values require the law to be and that's reporting child abuse. I don't think anyone should be in doubt about this. We need to have reporting of child abuse. If we've learned anything out of the child sexual abuse Royal Commission, we've learned that you absolutely need to have these reporting laws.
KENNEDY: Is the Prime Minister right to point towards supporting multiculturalism when he talks about protecting religious freedoms? We've got many religions being practiced in Australia.
DREYFUS: I'd like to see the Morrison Government put a bit more effort into actually respecting the multiculturalism that is part of modern Australia.
KENNEDY: Does he have a point there? Bill Shorten said yesterday moving around the country it's not in the top 100 issues that he comes across but that's where… It depends on where you're moving and who you are talking to because, as the Prime Minister points out, new Australians might have it much higher?
DREYFUS: I think I'd be listening to Bill Shorten on this. Bill's done dozens of Town Halls over the last few years. We know the kind of issues that get raised at Town Halls. When he came to my electorate and held a Town Hall meeting, no-one talked about that issue. They were talking about jobs and health and education.
KENNEDY: Do you think there will be movement on a religious discrimination act, is there time to do that before the next election?
DREYFUS: Regrettably I'm now a member of the Parliament that never sits. The Government has set a sitting schedule which gives us only 7 days before the Budget on 2nd April...
KENNEDY: So not enough time?
DREYFUS: It is unlikely that the Government will manage to get any legislation together on this subject and bring it to the parliament before 12 February.
KENNEDY: Thanks for your time Mark Dreyfus.
DREYFUS: Thanks for having me.
ENDS
