THE HON MARK DREYFUS KC MP
ATTORNEY-GENERAL
CABINET SECRETARY
MEMBER FOR ISAACS
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC MELBOURNE DRIVE
MONDAY, 9 DECEMBER 2024
SUBJECTS: Melbourne Synagogue Attack
ALI MOORE: We've also been talking this afternoon about the fact that the arson attack that burned through the Adass Israel Synagogue in Ripponlea is now being investigated as a terrorist incident. And we've also been talking about the Federal Government's announcement of an antisemitism taskforce. It's been described as an agile squad of counter-terrorism investigators. It's known as Avalite. Here's the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, on that new taskforce.
PRIME MINISTER: This is in response to the attack last Friday morning. That is now the third arson attack after the attack on Josh Burns’ electorate office and the Sydney Woollahra car incident. This will be a Commonwealth-led taskforce that will work with state and territory police forces.
MOORE: Well, Mark Dreyfus is the Federal Attorney-General and the Member for Isaacs, Mark Dreyfus, welcome to Drive.
ATTORNEY-GENERAL MARK DREYFUS: Thank you very much for having me, Ali.
MOORE: Before I get to the taskforce, as a Victorian and as a member of Melbourne's Jewish community, are you as confident as the Chief Commissioner of Police in Victoria and the Premier that this arson attack is a terrorist attack?
DREYFUS: I'm guided by the expert views of the Australian Federal Police and the Victoria Police and ASIO, who work together on these matters, and that's the conclusion that they have reached, that this is politically motivated violence.
MOORE: And do you understand why they have reached that conclusion? It's something they've not shared with us. Do you understand why?
DREYFUS: I'm the Minister for the Australian Federal Police and the Minister for ASIO and I'm not going to share operational details on air. It's a matter for the police when it is the right time to reveal more about their investigation. They’ve worked tirelessly since early morning last Friday to bring to justice the people who are responsible for this atrocious act.
MOORE: I certainly wasn't asking you to tell us, but I guess what I'm interested in is whether you understand why, you don't have to tell us on what basis you understand why, but you do understand why that call has been made?
DREYFUS: I do.
MOORE: Have you been able to speak to community members around the Adass Israel Synagogue about what's happened?
DREYFUS: I haven't spoken myself with the members of that congregation. I'm hoping to visit later in the week but I have obviously spoken to many members of the Melbourne Jewish community since the shocking events of last Friday morning. It's an unbelievably distressing incident for our entire community.
MOORE: Is there confidence in your community that all that can be done is being done?
DREYFUS: I hope so because I know that is the case. We've got a united effort by the Victorian Government, by the Australian Government, by the Australian Federal Police, by the Victoria Police and all Commonwealth agencies and all state agencies directed at both bringing these perpetrators to justice and protecting the Australian Jewish community. We are doing everything we can.
MOORE: I'll return to that issue of protection in the context of what the state government is doing. But this antisemitism taskforce that was announced at the federal level today that's being led by the AFP, what role do you see that playing? Not in this investigation, but just in trying to ensure the safety of the community?
DREYFUS: It will focus effort on antisemitic crimes to protect the Australian Jewish community. It will be a Commonwealth-led operation. It's going to work with state and territory police forces across Australia.
MOORE: And will it make a practical difference, though? We spoke earlier with the Chief Commissioner, Shane Patton, and he talked to us about the extensive links and the extensive cooperation that already exists with the AFP. Here's just a little bit of what he told us.
SHANE PATTON: We always work with the AFP through our joint counter-terrorism teams, through our Joint Organised Crime Task Force. But as well, we've had an operation stood up since the Hamas attack on Israel on the 7th of October last year. We've had an overarching operation called Operation Park, where we have coordinated investigations into antisemitic attacks, if you like.
MOORE: So that's Shane Patton talking to us. Mark Dreyfus, I'm just trying to sort of understand that. Seems to me there's already a lot of coordinated activity happening?
DREYFUS: That's right, but that is generally in relation to counter-terrorism. This is a specific Commonwealth-led operation that is directed at antisemitic crimes.
MOORE: Are you considering new definitions or new crimes, if you like, that aren't currently accounted for?
DREYFUS: I've got a Bill in the Senate right now, which is being considered by the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee, that creates new offences of, they're called hate crimes, which is the advocating for violence based on religion or political motives. And I'm very much hoping to see that legislation pass through the Parliament early in the new year.
MOORE: How urgent is that?
DREYFUS: Well, that's the reason we brought it to the Parliament, just in the same way that we brought a measure to criminalise doxxing, something that's also been antisemitic activity directed at Jewish groups and that passed the Parliament in the last sitting week. Sadly, Peter Dutton and the Liberals voted against it. It's the criminalisation of malicious release of personal information. And I, for the life of me do not understand why, having called for it, Peter Dutton and the Liberals voted against our criminalisation of doxxing.
MOORE: You're listening to Mark Dreyfus who's the Federal Attorney-General, Mark Dreyfus, you just mentioned Peter Dutton. He also announced an intention to establish an antisemitism taskforce earlier today. A few hours later you announced yours. Was yours in the works before his announcement?
DREYFUS: It had been called for by other people and we had been considering it for some time. The thing about Peter Dutton's behaviour since this dreadful event of the burning of a synagogue is that - I'd say this: the first thing that he did after that arson attack was to attack the Prime Minister. And it's a demonstration that Peter Dutton always seeks to divide the country, never to bring us together. This is a time when all Australians, and particularly all political leaders, should be uniting to say we stand together against antisemitism. But all Peter Dutton seems to be able to do is to attack the Government and seek to use to his own party advantage this incident of the burning of a synagogue. It's actually added to the distress of many people in the Melbourne Jewish community. It's distressing enough to have October the 7th, or it's distressing enough to have the burning of a synagogue. To have politicisation of these events is also distressing.
MOORE: Shane Patton, the Police Commissioner, also told us that he is very concerned about the rise of abuse and attacks on social cohesion in this State. Do you share that concern?
DREYFUS: I do share that concern. I've said publicly that I can't remember a time of such intense antisemitism, overt antisemitism, abuse being directed to members of the Jewish community, abuse directed at me. I've got to be frank, I've been in the House of Representatives for quite a time, but I can't remember a time like the last year where direct and overt antisemitic attacks are included now in criticism and posts about me, or my office being attacked, with slogans daubed on the walls and red paint thrown all over the front. There have been attacks on a whole lot of members of Parliament's offices, but the Melbourne Jewish community, the Sydney Jewish community, Jews throughout Australia have experienced antisemitism at a level that has not been experienced in our lifetimes. So sorry if that sounds, sounding the alarm, but that is the fact of what is happening. And our Government is determined to do whatever we can to bring this to an end, and I'd be calling on Peter Dutton to stand with the Government, not to be making these criticisms or empty calls for the Government to do more - or worse. He did this last week. He claimed that somehow the Government had caused this event to occur, which is an absurd thing for any political leader to suggest.
MOORE: Is that not what Benjamin Netanyahu has also suggested?
DREYFUS: Well, with the greatest of respect to the Prime Minister of Israel, he's wrong about that. Australia's vote in the United Nations was together with 157 other countries, including Britain, Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Japan. In fact, the position adopted by Australia on the particular resolution was the same position as that the Howard Government took in 2001. So the suggestion that was made by Mr Netanyahu is simply wrong. Australia remains a close friend of Israel. Our Government is a close friend of Israel. And it's a matter of regret to me that Mr Netanyahu, for his own reasons, has sought to make those comments.
MOORE: Mark Dreyfus, we talked earlier about the Bill that you currently have in Federal Parliament. So there is that. But when we look at this increase in abuse and attacks and antisemitism and the lessening of social cohesion in a very practical sense, what else can be done? What is it that allows, you know, the red paint to be splashed on the politician's office? The attacks to be made that do not lead to any charges essentially. What is it? Is the law weak? Is it because these incidents don't meet the threshold? What is it?
DREYFUS: Well, some perpetrators have been apprehended and someone has been, in fact, charged with the damage that was done and the attempt made to set alight to my colleague Josh Burns' office. Other people have been prosecuted for the display of terrorist symbols, which is something that we criminalised, not something that the Liberal Party ever did in its nine years in Government. We've criminalised the display of the Nazi salute that again, and again people have been charged with, that we've criminalised the display of terrorist symbols. We've now criminalised doxxing in the last sitting week and that legislation will come into effect. We've appointed the first Special Envoy to Combat Antisemitism. We've now appointed a first National Student Ombudsman, who'll be able to deal with safety of Jewish students on campuses. We've got that. You've mentioned the legislation that we have before Parliament to strengthen criminal offences for hate crimes. Immediately after the 7th of October attack, we committed $25 million for improved safety and security at Jewish community institutions across the country. And on Sunday, yesterday, we committed a further $32.5 million for further improvements to security at Jewish community sites. Now we're doing a great deal, we've done a great deal, and we're going to keep, as a Government, working in every way that we can at every level to bring this wave of antisemitism to an end, because we cannot accept places of worship being set alight, we can't accept people being targeted.
MOORE: And to that end, Attorney-General, the State Government is looking at what they can do, things like exclusion zones, as we currently have in Victoria for abortion clinics, things like permits for protests, which have been proposed by people including the former Treasurer, Josh Frydenberg. Are you in favour of those things?
DREYFUS: Matters of street order are matters for state governments to deal with on advice from state and territory police forces. The analogy with the protection that's needed to be provided to reproductive health clinics to make sure that there weren't demonstrators outside intimidating women might be a measure that should be considered in respect of places of worship, because at a personal level, I find it painful that there have to be guards outside Jewish places of worship. And maybe, because we've now had incidents of demonstrators demonstrating about a conflict that's 18,000km away, standing outside synagogues to demonstrate about that conflict. Maybe we do need to be considering keeping demonstrators away from places of worship.
MOORE: Mark Dreyfus, thank you very much for joining Drive.
DREYFUS: Thank you very much, Ali.
ENDS
